Curse

Xenomortis · Nov 05, 2010, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I would also include Mistrust as also unreliable, it will likely fail from the foe's build or profession.

Mistrust is far more likely to succeed. Mistrust activates as soon as they try to cast a spell (targeting one of their foes). With a 6 second duration, it's quite likely to trigger.

Cuilan · Nov 06, 2010, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Not if they cast a different type of spell or if they're not a caster.

Jeydra · Nov 06, 2010, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Well, I suggest you try it for yourself. The damage really adds up when WD + Mistrust are being used on recharge (which is very often considering fast casting and that shes using a 20/20 set). I have just finished Grothmar Wardowns HM, an area which has caused me trouble in the past due to the strong Charr groups. Gwen had no problem dealing with the flameshielders and outdamaged the healing from the menders/prophets.

I will admit that atm Gwen isn't as offensive as I'd like her, as I say - I'm swapping Unnatural Sig in there once I find a place to slip Enfeebling Blood into my hero setup.

I tried it in today's ZM (Raisu Palace) and I was completely unimpressed. Gwen often ran short on energy despite the four energy management skills, yet Wastrel's Demise still barely seemed to cause damage. Mistrust is as good as ever, but other than that it looked quite weak. Certainly I, using the Mesmer instead of Communing Rit, noticed a large difference in damage output (although I also guess that's only fair since the Rits are so much better than everyone else at damage right now).

I increasingly think Life Bringing's idea of bringing Panic + a few other Dom Mes skills + Rit heals is the best use of a Panic hero.

Life Bringing · Nov 06, 2010, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I increasingly think Life Bringing's idea of bringing Panic + a few other Dom Mes skills + Rit heals is the best use of a Panic hero.

My usual Panic build for a hero is:
10+1+1 dom
8+1 FC
8+1 Inspir
10 Resto

1.Panic
2.Cry of Frustration
3.Mistrust
4.Chaos Storm
5.Leech Sig(counter sometimes going negative when casting pwk)
6.Power Drain
7.Spirit Light
8.PwK

Probably more efficient than just about any other partial healer out there, considering it not only redbars go up but its skills act to some degree as prots, while still providing damage. Its an excellent use of a panic hero as well simply because finding 8 worthwhile slots in the mesmer line is nigh on impossible.

Oh, and i would never use Wastrel's anything on a hero. The damage is only decent when cast on groups of ~4, and even then every foe needs a wastrels skill on him, which hero ai wont do. Chances are itll be cast on something that spams skills anyways.

Xenomortis · Nov 06, 2010, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Not if they cast a different type of spell or if they're not a caster.

I've never seen a hero try to cast Mistrust on a Warrior.
Likewise, I don't see any Elementalist enemies without a spell.

Cuilan · Nov 06, 2010, 10:18 PM // 22:18

It will likely fail against Earthbound Ooze (ele) as an example.

Boogz · Nov 07, 2010, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Panic
Power Drain
Drain Enchantment
Cry of Frustration

rest is optional on domination/inspiration line. power spike, power leak, power lock, energy burn, sig. of weariness, leech sig, etc

Chthon · Nov 07, 2010, 08:35 AM // 08:35

I really have to come back and plug Arcane Conundrum again. E-management + increased cast times makes Panic more effective + increased cast times makes WD more effective.

Daesu · Nov 07, 2010, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthon

I really have to come back and plug Arcane Conundrum again. E-management + increased cast times makes Panic more effective + increased cast times makes WD more effective.

The problem with AC is that it is illusion magic, not domination which Panic is in. This means you have to spread your attributes further between dom, FC, illusion, and maybe inspiration if you need more energy management from it. Otherwise, give a workable Panic+AC bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I tried it in today's ZM (Raisu Palace) and I was completely unimpressed. Gwen often ran short on energy despite the four energy management skills, yet Wastrel's Demise still barely seemed to cause damage. Mistrust is as good as ever, but other than that it looked quite weak. Certainly I, using the Mesmer instead of Communing Rit, noticed a large difference in damage output (although I also guess that's only fair since the Rits are so much better than everyone else at damage right now).

I increasingly think Life Bringing's idea of bringing Panic + a few other Dom Mes skills + Rit heals is the best use of a Panic hero.

Although I agree bringing 4 energy management skills is over doing it, I dont think that bringing heals on an energy challenged class is a good idea either.

If you dont like WW, you can replace it with Leech Signet, which I prefer over Guilt for energy management and replace Waste Not Want Not with Drain Enchantment. This way you have:

Panic
Mistrust
Unnatural Signet
Wastrel's Demise
Leech Signet
Power Drain
Drain Enchantment
<last skill slot up to you>, I bring FoMF

You have 3 energy management skills because of 10e Panic and 10e Mistrust. This works well enough for me.

Xenomortis · Nov 07, 2010, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

The problem with AC is that it is illusion magic, not domination which Panic is in. This means you have to spread your attributes further between dom, FC, illusion, and maybe inspiration if you need more energy management from it. Otherwise, give a workable Panic+AC bar.

AC and Glyph are good enough. 12 Dom, 9 in FC and Illusion.
AC works great against large mobs. Against smaller groups though, you'll want something else (but Panic is a poor choice in that case).

Daesu · Nov 07, 2010, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

AC and Glyph are good enough. 12 Dom, 9 in FC and Illusion.
AC works great against large mobs. Against smaller groups though, you'll want something else (but Panic is a poor choice in that case).

I am not saying AC itself is bad, I am questioning whether AC goes well with Panic. If you already have Panic, does it make sense to also bring AC?

Karate Jesus · Nov 07, 2010, 05:34 PM // 17:34

I use GoLE and Waste Not, Want Not.

That's all my hero typically needs.

Outerworld · Nov 07, 2010, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I am not saying AC itself is bad, I am questioning whether AC goes well with Panic. If you already have Panic, does it make sense to also bring AC?

Arcane and Panic work fine together.

drkn · Nov 07, 2010, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Waste Not, Want Not + Leech Signet should be enough for most mesmer heroes unless you bring Wastrel's Worry or Wastrel's Demise, which is awfully weak on a hero in most situations.

Still, i prefer to bring Psychic Instability or even Tease on a mes hero as an elite rather than Panic - it works well on a player mesmer, while heroes excel at active interrupts rather than hexing, and Psychic is extremely powerful when used on a balled group.

Daesu · Nov 07, 2010, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

Arcane and Panic work fine together.

Of course technically they can work together but I mean logically. What would such a bar be like that would make sense?

Xenomortis · Nov 07, 2010, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I am not saying AC itself is bad, I am questioning whether AC goes well with Panic. If you already have Panic, does it make sense to also bring AC?

Domination and FC have no energy management options. You need to spec out of those two for anything or make do with GoLE alone.
The question is, is AC better than anything else in Inspiration.

Life Bringing · Nov 07, 2010, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I dont think that bringing heals on an energy challenged class is a good idea either.
.

Iirc, the bar i posted above doesn't have any significant energy issues.

Daesu · Nov 08, 2010, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Domination and FC have no energy management options. You need to spec out of those two for anything or make do with GoLE alone.
The question is, is AC better than anything else in Inspiration.

Yes, that is certainly one of the questions that I have in mind. Is it worth while to give up inspiration for illusion? Maybe yes or no, I would like to see a reasonable skill bar before I decide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

Iirc, the bar i posted above doesn't have any significant energy issues.

But that doesn't necessarily make your mesmer a better healer than your typical N/Rt healer or a SoS channel/restore rit, or even a monk healer with divine favor does it? The restoration spells are not so recharge challenged that FC would make a significant difference would it?

Also you dont necessarily need to make a Panic mesmer into a part time healer, for her to work without energy problems.

Xenomortis · Nov 08, 2010, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Yes, that is certainly one of the questions that I have in mind. Is it worth while to give up inspiration for illusion? Maybe yes or no, I would like to see a reasonable skill bar before I decide.

Whatever your bar is, you shouldn't have more than two energy management skills. Either they both come from Inspiration, in which case you drop them both and take GoLE and Arcane (good against large mobs) or you stick with Inspiration (stuff like Power Drain and maybe Drain Delusions).

It doesn't depend so much on the bar as much as it does on what you're facing, unless other Inspiration skills form core parts of your build.
It also depends on whether you can afford to make your secondary /E - if you can't then I doubt you can ride Arcane alone and a hero certainly won't be able to.

Jeydra · Nov 08, 2010, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

The question is, is AC better than anything else in Inspiration.

The answer is no, at least for a hero. When I tried Arcane Conundrum on an Illusion Mesmer, aiming to fuel Wandering Eye and Clumsiness, it didn't work. Look at the spell. It's got 20s cooldown and will return, at moderate spec, ~5 energy per foe. You'd have to hex two foes just to get the energy you invested back, and you don't get it at once.

I think it might work as a secondary energy management skill (Daesu, they work together because Arcane Conundrum makes Panic more likely to interrupt spells), but the spec will be difficult if nothing else. I'd like to see a bar; haven't gotten to testing.

Also even with Panic and Arcane Conundrum I question the validity of Wastrel's Demise. Over the first three seconds it does 66 damage, which isn't a lot; it's certainly less than the damage from other Domination Magic spells like Spiritual Pain and Shatter Delusions. Wastrel's Worry also does more, although it's kind of a pity that Shatter Delusions doesn't work with it (but only kind of, because a Wastrel's Worry that works with Shatter Delusions would be overpowering in PvP).

@Daesu - Fast Casting doesn't affect Rit spells, so that is irrelevant. More relevant is that Panic can be a powerful "prot", in fact one of the most powerful in the game, if you hex enough people with it. Therein lies the Mesmer's ability to keep the team alive. And it's not that you have to turn the hero into a semi-healer just so he / she doesn't have energy problems. It's that there don't seem to be enough good Mesmer options that you might as well turn it into a semi-healer and save on healing elsewhere.